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Hey, groovy freedomist, I got bad news. I was a lazy sh*t the past couple of days and I didn’t finish Part Two of my ten-reasons-why-you-can’t-save series. Part Two won’t be ready until Monday.
Damn! No one ever told me how hard this blogging gig was going to be.
But even though I’m in the blogger doghouse, and I should be devoting all my time to completing that promised post, I still feel obligated to post something today. So I decided to post my guide for choosing the four-year college route. It’s still very much in its skeleton stage, but there’s more than enough bone matter to chew on if you choose to chew on it. Here we go.
Seven Questions Every Prospective College Student Should Ask Before Pursuing a Bachelor’s Degree
If not done mindfully, getting a bachelor’s degree could be the worst financial move of your life. Here’s a great video showing several young people who got chewed up and spit out by the ravenous maw of the college-industrial complex.
In order to make sure you don’t become a dog-walker with a hundred thousand dollars worth of student loan debt, you need to ask whatever college accepts you the following seven questions:
- What percentage of students with my SAT score graduate in four years?
- Of the students with my SAT score who graduate in four years, what percentage have a degree in a STEM field?
- What is the mean debt load of your graduates by major?
- What is the mean starting salary of your graduates by major?
- What percentage of your graduates actually get a job that’s directly related to their majors?
- Do you require a critical-thinking enter and exit exam so you can gauge how well your programs increase your students’ critical-thinking skills?
- And if you do, what gains can someone with my SAT score expect?
Run Away If You Don’t Get Answers
If a college or university is honorable, it should be very forthright with this information. After all, how could any prospective student make an informed choice without it?
And if your prospective college doesn’t provide this information, it means one of two things: either your prospective college is incompetent or your prospective college is run by a bunch of scammers. Either way, you should avoid any prospective college that doesn’t provide this information like the plague.
Community College Is Your Friend
If every college that awarded bachelor degrees provided the information pertaining to the seven questions above, many if not most prospective students would find the vaunted BA to be a bad bet. The number of students who pursue a bachelor’s degree and actually get one—and actually get a job related to their degree—is shockingly small.
But all is not lost.
Community college is much more respectful of your time and money. I spent $185 for a welding course I’m taking right now at my local community college, and for that $185, I’m entitled to 12 weeks of instruction from a seasoned welding professional, access to top-notch welding equipment, and all the metal I can play with. Heck, I bet the cost of the metal I’ve welded so far (there are three weeks left in the course) is worth more than $185. Community colleges are an incredible bargain.
My only gripe with community college is that it isn’t as rigorous academically as the typical four-year college. But I suppose that would quickly change if Americans made community college their default college of choice. There’s no reason why we can’t have the Harvard or Cal-Tech of community college.
Final Thoughts
Okay, groovy freedomist, that’s all I got. What say you? Do our four-year colleges need to be more forthright about the quality of their product? And should Americans en masse avoid every four-year college that isn’t? Let me know what you think when you get a chance. Peace.
Academic rigor is not necessarily present in prestigious institutions or absent from obscure ones. My daughter found GVSU was as rigorous as UMich when she took a summer class during her undergrad. Later she got a Masters at somewhere famous and the workload was much lighter there. However the networking opportunities was another matter entirely.
Intersting. I’ve often heard right-leaning Harvard grads remark that Havard is hard to get into and even harder to flunk out of.
I work at a large community college in the mid-west and it has transfer agreements with all the state four-year colleges and when looking at a community college, that’s the first thing a student should ask. You are correct that more students should start at this level, unfortunately some CC’s are better than others (as with any school).
What I have been most impressed about is the alternatives that a good community college offers to students. We offer many professional certificates and associate degrees where students can spend two years or less learning a skill and then be ready for employment: dental hygiene, HVAC technicians, practical nursing, welding, etc. All accredited programs and reasonable cost.
Awesome comment, DF. Couldn’t agree more. I just took my first community college course in my life–a beginner’s welding course. Best $185 I ever spent.
I agree however much needs to be done to better align our community colleges with our state universities. Here in NY, my daughter knew kids that did their first 2 years in a community college. When they transferred to a SUNY school afterwards, some of their credits didn’t transfer and they had to repeat certain classes. This was because the courses in the CC weren’t considered to be on par with similar classes at the SUNY school. As public schools in the same state, this should never be the case. I also believe we need to revamp the 4 year schools to eliminate or minimize most of the generic, liberal arts requirements and let people spend their money on classes that will actually help them get a great job.
Pat, as a community college transfer, I agree with you. I had to end up taking some courses a second time because they couldn’t find a close enough match. I agree with your last point on general education classes as well. I’m still not sure how much value those added to myself or my career, but I can tell you about the three different types of earthquake fault lines. I could have graduated two years earlier and saved a whole bunch of money if I was able to just take courses related to my major.
My daughter was a geology major and wanted to take more geology classes but couldn’t because of the required liberal arts classes. She saw little benefit in taking those liberal arts classes, most of which anyone could learn about online or at the library for free if they wanted to. I suspect that most of those classes only serve as a means to employ professors who can’t get a job outside academia.
“She saw little benefit in taking those liberal arts classes, most of which anyone could learn about online or at the library for free if they wanted to.”
Your daughter is a very bright person. We got to stop the nonsense and unbundle the higher education business model. The only required courses should be the 12 to 15 courses that pertain to your major. All courses that are designed to make you “well-rounded” should be optional. Twelve to 15 rigorous courses are all most people need for most entry-level jobs.
Thanks Mr. Groovy. Despite graduating into the last recession when jobs were not available, she also found that she would have had a better chance if she could have taken more classes in her major. In the end she signed up for an apprenticeship and is now a journeyman pipe/steamfitter. Next up she is looking into getting her welding certification with her union. This is real world training that should be emphasized.
So many agree on the issue of unnecessary liberal arts classes. I just emailed Betsy Devos with several suggestions including eliminating these classes or at least not providing loans for those classes. Only when there is money at stake will colleges change. Let’s hope the people in charge will see the need for this change and do something about it.
Happy Thanksgiving!
Great comment. The current college business model is terribly flawed. Making young people take 40 courses when 15 or 20 would do is an afront to decency. That anti-consumer model is something I expect from Wall Street. Not higher education.
Ooops. I forgot to wish you a happy Thanksgiving, Mr. GOFG. Hope the turkey and mashed potatoes are extra good this year. Cheers.
You are so right, Pat. We need visionaries to create a more rational higher education system. But sadly, visionaries are in short supply in our political class. Hope all is well on your end. Have a great Thanksgiving. Cheers.